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View Full Version : 1.34 Update - Are status effects easier to understand?



Matt A-Row
08-19-2015, 04:14 PM
Quoting Dan: "The main goal was to normalize status effects, so they would behave in a more understandable and predictable fashion."..."So give us your feedback! We are listening. I encourage you all to get engaged here, on the forums."

Here's my feedback split up into bite-sized chunks:

Let's just talk about "understandable":

When I started playing, tooltips gave you the numbers. How much damage is this attack going to do? 1800 with 35% chance of +850 critical. No math, no ambiguity. Push the button that said "Go!"

Yes, there was a problem in that the numbers were not always correct, but specific numbers are way easier to understand than calculating 25% of a number that is not in front of you then adding a second or third variable to the equation. Computers do math like that so we don't have to. The system is (obviously) already doing the math, it just has to be displayed in advance so the player can make an informed decision and execute it.

I have to suggest that both of the last two updates have made status effects harder to understand. The last update removed the hard numbers and the tooltip now reports, "(Attack Symbol) will increase". That's pretty ambiguous compared to "attack increases by 103".

Even if you know it's 25% because you read the release notes, KIZ is still requiring players to do some non-trivial math before every action. Quick - what's 233 + 25%? Now calculate the 40% poison divided up over two rounds or four rounds. But wait - is the Poison added before the buff or after the buff? What did the release notes say?...

Does anyone disagree that the best solution is a tooltip that accurately calculates the damage with all the applicable variables? What could be more understandable and predictable than that?

While we're at it can we see the "final" attack and health numbers with equipped items included in our barracks and lists? Why do we have to wait until we are actually engaged in battle to see the numbers?

Technos
08-19-2015, 09:23 PM
Quoting Dan: "The main goal was to normalize status effects, so they would behave in a more understandable and predictable fashion."..."So give us your feedback! We are listening. I encourage you all to get engaged here, on the forums."

Here's my feedback split up into bite-sized chunks:

Let's just talk about "understandable":

When I started playing, tooltips gave you the numbers. How much damage is this attack going to do? 1800 with 35% chance of +850 critical. No math, no ambiguity. Push the button that said "Go!"

Yes, there was a problem in that the numbers were not always correct, but specific numbers are way easier to understand than calculating 25% of a number that is not in front of you then adding a second or third variable to the equation. Computers do math like that so we don't have to. The system is (obviously) already doing the math, it just has to be displayed in advance so the player can make an informed decision and execute it.

I have to suggest that both of the last two updates have made status effects harder to understand. The last update removed the hard numbers and the tooltip now reports, "(Attack Symbol) will increase". That's pretty ambiguous compared to "attack increases by 103".

Even if you know it's 25% because you read the release notes, KIZ is still requiring players to do some non-trivial math before every action. Quick - what's 233 + 25%? Now calculate the 40% poison divided up over two rounds or four rounds. But wait - is the Poison added before the buff or after the buff? What did the release notes say?...

Does anyone disagree that the best solution is a tooltip that accurately calculates the damage with all the applicable variables? What could be more understandable and predictable than that?

While we're at it can we see the "final" attack and health numbers with equipped items included in our barracks and lists? Why do we have to wait until we are actually engaged in battle to see the numbers?

E Let me start by saying this,

Though i completely understand your confusion because i go through this as well, the numbers can sometimes be off for good reason. For instance, if an one out of three of the enemies has suffered a weakness to their defense, the tool tip shouldn't calculate that because you might attack one of the other two enemies.

Now, your complaints about the whole, 25%, 40%, etc. and whether or not the poison is added after the buff, i have to agree with you completely on that. I find it rather annoying and would prefer specific numbers so i would know if i could go in for the kill or not.

DanHaney
08-20-2015, 10:31 AM
I do think the current system is more easily understood, especially in regards to how the effects work: all Weakens have the same value, all Buffs have the same value. Players don’t have to tap an icon to see the value. You see a Weaken icon, and you know what it does.

Regarding damage numbers on tooltips, the damage is calculated live in battles. If I take a lv.5 Sorcerer into battle, his offense stat is 60 and his attack deals 150 damage. If I use a Purify battle boost, his team gets a Buff stack that increases output by 25%. Checking his tooltips again, I see that his offense is now 75 (60*1.25) and his attack deals 187 dmg (150*1.25). That seems pretty clear. Without doing some calculations beforehand, you might not know exactly what will happen when the Buff is applied, but the values are still calculated for you prior to any attack (with the exception of Expose, as Technos points out.)

Regarding Poison, as stated in the patch notes, “Life Drain, Sacrifice, Invigorate, Counter and Poison items will continue to derive their applied values based on the current offense stat.” So fighters with Poison items will deal more Poison damage if Buffed and through Expose. The game has never stated how much Poison would be applied from attack using a Poison item, as they have always used a percentage of damage. But once the Poison is applied, the damage/round values display on the Poison tooltip, so strategic decisions should not be limited.

I doubt we’ll see calculated values in the Barracks any time soon, for the simple reason that the Barracks doesn’t have any battle logic. The only relevant items that would affect Barracks stats are Offense/Defense Boost items, and you can see those increases as soon as you take a fighter into battle. For example, that same lv.5 Sorcerer equipped with a Deity Hammer (25% Off Boost) would enter battle with offense of 75.

Ginslice
08-21-2015, 10:10 AM
Oi, I'm hooooorrible w percentages! Maybe I'll make myself a lil damage/status effect/ability/etc chart poster......yes, u can make fun of me ;)