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shadowxros
08-21-2015, 12:19 PM
I honestly feel she is a bit too weak in her base no upgrades form. She dies way too quickly, it's almost like you are forced to stealth and spam your skills and hope you kill the person otherwise you are dead.

I'm not really sure what can be done other than maybe up her health and damage resistance by a small amount. I mean hell I main Kilowatt and he wasn't even this squishy at the start.

A high risk, high reward character is good, but even a glass cannon doesn't shatter instantly.

SirFizzyWo
08-21-2015, 01:02 PM
i would like to point out that her automatic crit from stealth is currently not working which is decreasing her overall effectiveness in battle.

i think she is a character that is meant to not only run girded, but counter girded as well, and will be most effective as a skirmisher/ganker rather than being tossed into team fights.

also she excels at chasing down ball carriers, as well as last hitting wounded champs.

shadowxros
08-21-2015, 01:30 PM
I noticed the crit thing and thought maybe the passive description was just messed up. Also she may be a bit more viable in plunderball even if it is just chasing, but in conquest currently, she isn't viable until she has upgrades and even then, I have filled out her endurance tree with tier 2 upgrades as I could afford that, 3 resistance, 2 health. She's still a ball of squish.

J_MTN
08-21-2015, 02:59 PM
She's still a ball of squish.

As SirFizz mentioned, Girded will help a lot with that. Though, it should be noted that girded is weak to Machinegun when you use girded to "ignore" your low resistance stats. And as many players run machine gun, you can be taken out quick if not careful.

I agree that her base stats don't facilitate her standing her own in the middle of 2-3 enemies. But with a base 10% critical chance, the great stealth skill, and the amazing passive trait that guarantees crit, what do you expect? I think that any less squishy, and we would be nearing unbalanced.

Besides, kiz needs you to need coins. And If you're squishy, you'll need coins.

shadowxros
08-21-2015, 03:21 PM
Her passive, doesn't work as it says, it doesn't give guaranteed crit, it's currently glitched, it doesn't work. Also you are right kiz needs you to need coins the only problem is, being too squishy is very bad as it makes people not want to try the new character when everyone is running around decked out and you die instantly.

13igTyme
08-21-2015, 03:26 PM
This thread threw me for a loop. I had to log on to see how many new characters they added. I was disappointed.

13igTyme
08-21-2015, 03:28 PM
Her passive, doesn't work as it says, it doesn't give guaranteed crit, it's currently glitched, it doesn't work. Also you are right kiz needs you to need coins the only problem is, being too squishy is very bad as it makes people not want to try the new character when everyone is running around decked out and you die instantly.

Earn money on a decked out character then spend it on a new one.

SirFizzyWo
08-21-2015, 03:31 PM
i will also add that she is an "expert" tier champ. in this case "expert" probably means you have played enough that when you get her you have the coins to upgrade her.

gotta say, that i have her endurance workouts bought+girded and cosmetics bought+bubbles, i was surviving pretty well. saving up now to get her strength workouts and badge, but until they fix her passive shes pretty unplayable.

unplayable in the sense that you have to work too hard to get kills. survivability is fine i think. let me know if you need help figuring out what workouts she needs. me and emomiime talked pretty extensively about her this morning.

EDIT: as a heads up, her 600 damage skill actually does 198 three times (for a total of 594, not 600), but even more interestingly, if the target has 0% defense (or any defense that would still allow for more than 150 TOTAL damage of all three attacks) and girded badge, the damage is reduced to 49 damage per hit.

i. e.
brutus has 20% damage resistance.
he gets hit by the 600 damage attack.
damage is reduced by 20%
damage is further reduced to total 150
damage is divided by 3 (the 3 hits from the skill)
50 damage per hit

J_MTN
08-21-2015, 03:38 PM
Her passive, doesn't work as it says, it doesn't give guaranteed crit, it's currently glitched, it doesn't work. Also you are right kiz needs you to need coins the only problem is, being too squishy is very bad as it makes people not want to try the new character when everyone is running around decked out and you die instantly.

I understand that it's glitched. But that alone is not a valid reason to raise her stats. It will be fixed. This is the beta, after all.

And your statement that a squishy base stat character is bad because you die to decked out characters is strange to me. Any base stat character will be stomped by a decked out character. Whether it's a base stat khan or a base stat Ninjette doesn't matter. The end result is generally the same.

Base characters will all seem weak to fully slotted champs. Its a fact. Just because you die to powerful builds when your own build isn't complete, doesn't mean Ninjette needs to be rebalanced.

When you have exhausted every option, and no possible build makes Ninjette a useful Champion is when you can start to talk about making her less squishy.

I'm currently stat-crunching to find some builds that I think will be feasible for her. If you'd like to discuss some ideas for finding her true potential, just let me know.

SirFizzyWo
08-21-2015, 03:54 PM
i agree she doesnt need a buff in base stats, but as her passive is one of her main sources of ganking/assassin power, she is pretty handicapped in her current state.

side note: can we get JUST 1 update that completely works as intended lol?

13igTyme
08-21-2015, 04:05 PM
I don't think the "Expert" means you'll have the coin. I think it means you need to have the skill. Rook is the only other expert champ. That's why there are so few people who are even decent with her, let alone good or great.

SirFizzyWo
08-21-2015, 04:11 PM
well, i was kind of half joking about what i defined "expert" as, but also, ninjette seems pretty easy to play compared to champs like Xavilla, Rook, and Leatherhead who actually REQUIRE precise positioning most of the time.

so yeah, i stick with "expert" meaning "expert of gathering coins" lol

shadowxros
08-21-2015, 04:17 PM
And your statement that a squishy base stat character is bad because you die to decked out characters is strange to me. Any base stat character will be stomped by a decked out character. Whether it's a base stat khan or a base stat Ninjette doesn't matter. The end result is generally the same.

Base characters will all seem weak to fully slotted champs. Its a fact. Just because you die to powerful builds when your own build isn't complete, doesn't mean Ninjette needs to be rebalanced.



Not true at all, I have Nexi who has no upgrades at all, and I'm able to kill people and not die if I miss a single skill. There is Brutus who I rarely use no upgrades, while he is squishy it's not at the point of "Oh **** I missed my skills I need to run or I die" like it is with Ninjette.

Her base health is only 900 something. I think she has the lowest base health of all the champions if I am correct. Even just upping that to where it is 1000 exactly would help.

J_MTN
08-21-2015, 05:19 PM
Not true at all, I have Nexi who has no upgrades at all, and I'm able to kill people and not die if I miss a single skill. There is Brutus who I rarely use no upgrades, while he is squishy it's not at the point of "Oh **** I missed my skills I need to run or I die" like it is with Ninjette.

Her base health is only 900 something. I think she has the lowest base health of all the champions if I am correct. Even just upping that to where it is 1000 exactly would help.

I just don't think that you're fighting fully slotted, optimized characters if you're able to beat them with an un-upgraded anything. Sure, you may have a good bit of sustain with Nexi. And the players just may not be good. But if you're really able to get consistent positive results against optimized builds without using badges, then way to go. Never spending coin makes things a bit easier.

13igTyme
08-21-2015, 09:05 PM
well, i was kind of half joking about what i defined "expert" as, but also, ninjette seems pretty easy to play compared to champs like Xavilla, Rook, and Leatherhead who actually REQUIRE precise positioning most of the time.

so yeah, i stick with "expert" meaning "expert of gathering coins" lol

But those are just range. She might be easy to aim because she melee, but if she was easy to play then this thread might not have even been made.

shadowxros
08-21-2015, 10:54 PM
But those are just range. She might be easy to aim because she melee, but if she was easy to play then this thread might not have even been made.

The only reason I made this thread is mainly to get some insight on why her base health is so low. 2 skills and a base attack and you are either dead or on the brink.

Ace
08-21-2015, 11:19 PM
She's squishy for a reason. You're not supposed to stay in prolonged fights like you can with nexi or oddi, she's an assassin not a fighter. You stealth in, get your guaranteed crit (if it was working) and 600dmg burst off, and you get out. You don't even have tier 3 endurance workouts yet, of course she's going to be squishy.

SirFizzyWo
08-22-2015, 02:58 AM
EDIT: Ace has the correct idea about how this champ is intended to run. Shes an assassin, not a tank. most other MOBAs that feature assassin types are usually pretty squishy also.
END EDIT

well the simplicity of her style is auto crits. the only "expert" play comes in when balancing her workouts/badges.
do you build higher HP at the cost of HP regen?
do you counter the HP regen loss with apples and lose melee attack speed?
how many tier 3 athletic tapes do you run for maximum value?

this is what makes her an" expert" champ is trying to find her best build. yes, shes also squishy, so positioning and timing are important, but with a 15 second stealth (can i just take a sec and say "WOOOOOOOOOOOW") and an auto crit, doing damage with her just isnt a challenge (IMO). no, i think the real challenge comes from taking a champ who is very squishy inately, and molding her into a death dealer. this requires coins and (as you yourself pointed out about upgrade champs vs. base champs) someone who is an expert at earning those coins and buying the upgrades, will beat the unupgraded expert, almost every time.

this is all off topic anyhow so i apologise for that. debating the meaning of an arbitrary difficulty meter is pointless.

as far as Ninjette goes, honestly i dont believe she needs a buff. she needs her passive fixed, and then she will be good to go.
if you are curious about her maximum HP, i actually do know that number!

5 tier 3 Athletic Tapes equals a total HP of 1861 HP