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View Full Version : Minos is a Great Example of Balance!



Emomiime
09-05-2015, 10:14 AM
Hey there guys just wanted to make a food for thought post. Minos is a great champion. I would say he is a bruiser (In between tank and offense) that really has some interesting and well balanced mechanics. I believe that once the Devs decided to start balancing champs, that Minos is a prime example of what a balanced champ looks like. Let's look at why:
Stoneform = gains and incredible 50% damage resistance! With a 40% slow and recast for 300 damage that removes these effects. What makes this balanced? 50% damage resistance literally cuts all damage done to him in half! Which is crazy, but while this turns minos into an uber tank he also gains negative effects that allow for enemies to be able to counter play him! Now currently we have some champion effects similar to this without any negative effects to the user such as Khan and Rook.

Both of these champions are considered to be very strong because there is little counter-play that must be executed perfectly in order to kill a full out geared Rook/Khan. When looking to balance the champs, I hope that the Devs will look at Minos as the example of a balanced champion. For example: Rook gains the dmg resistance after using her Shadow Mist and she can retain the resistance for 30 seconds!!?!?!?! What? This basically giver her a passive 40% resistance do to the fact she can easily always have this up.

One form of balance could be this: Shadow mist 1st cast does everything the same as now. While rook has her damage resistance on, rook drains 12 energy per second 2nd cast removes the damage resistance. Using shadow mist within duration refreshes the energy drain not stacks.

Using this tactic, Rook is not only balanced by this, but she gains and interesting mechanic.

Now Khan, not only does Khan gain dmg resistance, but he can give this buff to an ally and it also gives energy regeneration and damage reflect. One thing that could be changed is if it is put on an ally, each champion only gains half the effect. If put on self, gain full effect but after effect wears off, gain negative 25% damage resistance for 4 seconds. Again this opens up an opportunity for counter play.

Of course these are only suggestions as to what can be done to balance (as these two are prime examples of champions that are close to being toxic for the balanced game environment)

Like what I said? Think this is a good idea? Or I am just plain wrong? feel free to comment!

J_MTN
09-05-2015, 10:57 AM
I do agree Minos is a great champ. I'm strong with my full build, but a good team can shut me out. But another thing on Minos's stone form. I originally thought his 50% damage resistance would stack with my current resistances. However, that is not the case. I think it may be broken.
Example. The melee bot in the arena has an AD of 150. With my 40% resistance, I take 90 damage. I thought that the stone form would give me 90% physical resistance, cutting the damage to a mere 15. However, I took 75 damage. This confused me a bit. My hypothesis was that the 50% resistances simply replaced my 40% resistances completely. I was wrong again. I beefed my resistances to 60%. I took 59 damage. With stoneform I took 44. The same amount I should receive if my resistances totaled 70%.

I'm now certain that stone form only gives 10% physical resistance.

Now, I do think your suggestions are good ideas. I just think we need clarification from the developers to as to whether or not Minos' skill is operating correctly.

13igTyme
09-05-2015, 01:44 PM
I do agree Minos is a great champ. I'm strong with my full build, but a good team can shut me out. But another thing on Minos's stone form. I originally thought his 50% damage resistance would stack with my current resistances. However, that is not the case. I think it may be broken.
Example. The melee bot in the arena has an AD of 150. With my 40% resistance, I take 90 damage. I thought that the stone form would give me 90% physical resistance, cutting the damage to a mere 15. However, I took 75 damage. This confused me a bit. My hypothesis was that the 50% resistances simply replaced my 40% resistances completely. I was wrong again. I beefed my resistances to 60%. I took 59 damage. With stoneform I took 44. The same amount I should receive if my resistances totaled 70%.

I'm now certain that stone form only gives 10% physical resistance.

Now, I do think your suggestions are good ideas. I just think we need clarification from the developers to as to whether or not Minos' skill is operating correctly.

It doesn't mean it's bugged. Resistances from skills could just be multiplied and not added.

J_MTN
09-05-2015, 01:48 PM
It doesn't mean it's bugged. Resistances from skills could just be multiplied and not added.

I'm not quite following. Could you explain that?

13igTyme
09-05-2015, 04:46 PM
I'm not quite following. Could you explain that?

Many games do this as a way of balancing stuff. You mostly see it with cool downs and mitigation. It also depends on how the developers want to do the equation.

Basically it's like this: When added 20% + 20% would be 40%. When multiplied 20% * 20% would be 4% which would then be added to the base 20% for 24%. This is just some rough BS off the top of my head example. But many games do this. It's why you can have over 100% Mitigation/Cooldown/CritChance when added on some games but only be sitting at 50%-80% depending on who they want to soft cap it.

So the work outs could be Added while the skills are multiplied.

J_MTN
09-05-2015, 06:22 PM
I see. It just didn't make sense to me reading it the first time. I never considered this, but it doesn't seem to be the case. It would make perfect sense, but the math falls apart. IF they are multiplied, then we are missing something.
(I like to think in decimals rather than %)

First Example
0.4*0.5=0.2
0.4+0.2=0.6
150*0.6=90 (damage negated)
150-90=60 (damage received)

I took 75 Damage with Stone Form
How about this?

0.4+0.1=0.5
0.5*150=75 (damage negated)
150-75=75 (damage received)


Second Example
0.6*0.5=0.3
0.6+0.3=0.9
150*0.9=135 (damage negated)
150-135=15 (damage received)

However, I received 44 Damage.
Consider this,

0.6+0.1=0.7
150*0.7=105 (damage negated)
150-105=45 (damage received)

Emomiime
09-06-2015, 01:39 PM
and my post got stolen from people discussing minos' skill =(

J_MTN
09-06-2015, 02:25 PM
Quite sorry about that, didn't mean for it to go so far. To get back on topic, I do think your ideas about rook and khan are going the right direction. And that the devs should definitely consider what you've said. To take mine and 13igtyme's conversation and make it more relevant, I think part of understanding what makes Minos so well balanced is understanding that his resistance buff from stoneform is not just added on to current resistances. This is something about Minos' stoneform that makes it defeatable while at the same time retaining its usefulness. The devs definitely found a middle road with this character. But I don't think we should worry too much about tweaking champs until all the workouts are fixed. Bowling may change things and a nerfed machinegun may make khan a lot less powerful.

Cruzzmak
09-07-2015, 10:52 PM
Nice post, good feedback. I find Leatherhead to be about balanced as well.